Thursday, December 06, 2012

The Dark Knight Rises: A Liveblog

I have nothing better to do today and a copy of The Dark Knight Rises, so I'm just going to put it into the computer and watch it and record my impressions, etc. I enjoyed Batman Begins, and then didn't like The Dark Knight. I didn't like The Dark Knight in such a way that it kind of retroactively ruined Batman Begins for me. I see feelings for this movie swinging all over the place, and I've felt like I'm probably not going to like it. Still, I'm going to try and meet the movie on its own terms.

So, spoiler alert and all that. Here we go. Let's start the movie.

01.48: Hey, Littlefinger.

02.02: Wally Pfister does beautiful, sweeping establishing shots. I just wish he didn't feel like everything in close shots didn't have to be rolled towards and then danced around with a sprightly step. It is okay to do a shot that's not breathing all over the place every once in a while. (Maybe he read that Robert Rodriguez bit about how handheld makes everything alive, too. Good book. Too bad Robert Rodriguez forgot how to make an interesting movie.)

03.41: It's been said before that Bane's mask looks like GOATSE, but holy shit, it really does look like GOATSEE. Also, is Tom Hardy going to do this idiotic fake Sean Connery accent through the whole movie?

06.30: Some of this plane hijacking/destruction stuff is pretty exciting, but Bane's voice is just so non-threatening and jovial. He sounds like when my drunk roommate used to do his twee Connery voice he thought was spot-on.

06.44: Complaints about some of the shots aside, I always love the overhead shots of Gotham City in these movies. Wally Pfister gets a lot of pretty helicopter shots.

07.38: Where'd they dig up Matthew Modine?

08.05: Okay, all of this stuff about Harvey Dent and the Dent Act and how Batman is just a thug who constantly breaks the law... it's exactly right. And now, if it's anything like the last two movies, Christopher Nolan is going to spend the next three hours telling us that it's okay to break the law when you know better than everyone else how it should be applied.

12.04: Damn, Christian Bale looks hot with that beard.

12.54: I immediately love how playful Anne Hathaway is.

13.53: Here's the thing that bugs me about Joseph Gordon-Levitt: his voice. It just comes across like a big faux-masculine put-on. I'm willing to concede that that might be an unfair assessment, but where did this big deep voice with the New York accent suddenly start coming from about three or four years ago? It's not like we didn't watch you grow up on television, Tommy. You're a decent actor, but damn it, you irritate me sometimes.

There are a hundred characters in this movie.

14.30: All that said, I immediately like Officer Blake, if only because he's apparently the only guy in 8 years to point out that Batman suddenly being a murderer after everything he went through to get the Joker and everything he did in Batman Begins makes absolutely no sense. They couldn't just blame it on the Joker? I mean, they were already lying to the justice system in the name of believing in justice...

14.54: The piano opening a secret passage is a nice nod to Batman Returns.

15.40: I like that they acknowledge the physical toll a decade of being Batman would take on Bruce Wayne, but doesn't he catch a lot of colds hanging out next to that underground waterfall all the time?

17.48: Michael Caine is absolutely the best part of these movies.

19.09: Wait, so, has Batman not come forward since the night Harvey Dent died 8 years ago? Then why does Bruce Wayne have a cane if he's not actually been Batman since then? And how does this little kid remember Batman? Batman appears to have stopped fighting crime when you were four years old, son.

22.58: Damn. Catwoman. Gets. Shit. Handled.

24.10: Blake has the same haircut my Dad's had since 1980. Just saying. I like it.

29.30: Not sure I totally buy Blake's explanation for how he used psychology or mutual experience to instantly figure out that Bruce Wayne is Batman, but so far I like Blake a lot more than I like Wayne. The scene just feels like it came out of nowhere and was a little too fast, but it was well-acted and some of the dialogue was nice.

If I have one overriding complaint about this flick right now it's that it's zipping through everything too quickly. On the one hand, it's nice that Christopher Nolan gives us all credit for being able to keep up. On the other hand, giving the story room to breathe a little might make me feel more involved in the characters and more certain of what's actually happening. Right now it's all kind of situation, like I've been watching a half-hour trailer for a different movie. Lots of plot, not a lot of story.

33.30: I know this isn't really her fault, but Marion Cotillard is so much better in French. Telling Wayne all of these things about restoring balance to the world, making this point and trying to make him feel small about being so reclusive, it just sounds ridiculous because her breathy, nasal accent can't give the dialogue the tone it needs to convey the import Nolan thinks the words have. Nothing against Cotillard, but it's a fatal error for this character, and it's simply because Cotillard hasn't quite mastered the American idiom yet. Like I said, not her fault, but it just doesn't give the words weight.

34.17: Another nice wink at Batman Returns. Whatever the faults of the Tim Burton movies, they've certainly left their mark on the Batman mythos. Anne Hathaway is so damn good in this movie. I like this scene. Right now I feel like I could watch a whole movie of Christian Bale and Anne Hathaway at a party together. (The whole theme of wealth vs. community is very interesting.)

39.09: Bruce Wayne has a magic electrical leg enhancer because this is the realistic version of Batman. Apparently he can use it to kick brick walls without even hurting his foot.

40.42: "The city needs Bruce Wayne. Your resources, your knowledge. It doesn't need your body, or your life. That time has passed." Amen, Alfred. Let's really look into the psychosis of Batman here. He has enough resources and intelligence to help the city in so many ways--to help root out the corruption, to make a go of this clean energy thing he's looking into, to address the economic disparity of Gotham--hell, this clean energy thing ought to create some jobs. Shit, start a program to beautify the city, that'll create more jobs. But instead it has to be about putting on a costume and hitting people because that's somehow in Wayne's mind the more important aspect of helping people. And it's just so, so not. Christopher Nolan sets up a lot of interesting themes in these movies and this is supposed to be the more realistic Batman, but it just highlights the sickness of what Wayne does and how truly pointless and hypocritical it is. Batman is the least interesting part of these movies.

46.15: "Oh, boy, you are in for a show tonight, son." My inner fanboy just thrilled.

49.55: Batman doesn't surrender to police. Justice is for other people. Like Bane, who Batman just inadvertently helped escape from police.

51.00: The Batmobile can fly away because realism.

53.38: Catwoman is one cool customer. Stay with Catwoman.

"No guns, no killing." Apparently Selina didn't see the first movie, where Batman was so unwilling to kill someone that he blew up the house with the League of Shadows in it just to prove that he wasn't a killer.

54.06: ... Seriously, guys?

55.41: "So that's what that feels like." Haha.

56.08: "Aren't the police supposed to be investigating this?" "They don't have the tools to analyze it." "They would if you gave them to them." Alfred has so got Bruce's number. Cheers to Alfred for pointing out that he distracted police efforts to capture Bane. Batman making a spectacle of himself because, you know, he is the night and the shadow and interfering in police procedures is just collateral damage or whatever.

57.38: "You're not Batman anymore. You have to find another way." Exactly. Grow up, Bruce.

59.28: Michael fucking Caine, ladies and gentlemen.

1.00.1: Damn, that's a good looking man.

1.02.34: This whole clean energy plot thread feels like it's coming out of nowhere. They might as well have just put up a title card that said "BEGIN ACT 2." Also, why do Christian Bale's mannerisms as Bruce Wayne seem totally cribbed from Alex P. Keaton?

1.04.07: "Do you feel in charge?" I haven't really dug Bane so far, but that's a great moment.

I've never liked Bane; I think he's one of the worst, most uninteresting villains they've come up with in the comic book. But this guy... I don't know, this movie's version of Bane is far more interesting, even with the silly voice. I'm starting to warm up to him, I admit. Threw me off at first, but I'm starting to like this guy.

1.07.30: "You're a detective; you're not allowed to believe in coincidences anymore." That's going to end up being Gordon's best line.

1.09.58: Boring romantic subplot with Marion Cotillard barely registers. So what's her deal in this story? There's got to be a big twist, right? She's Talia or something? (Though I'm honestly not certain if you can count on Roger Ebert's Law of Economy of Characters in a Christopher Nolan movie.)

1.10:07: Cool.

1.11.52: Selina is surprised to find out Batman is Bruce Wayne. She must not have had as tough a life as John Blake did, where she could instantly recognize who Batman is. (Also, the Bane voice just got ridiculous again. "Victory hasz defeeted YOU?" Sheesh.)

1.13.48: "And I am heer to fulfill Razlgool's DESH-TINEH!" Having a hard time taking this seriously, but the camp value is truly priceless. It's like how, if you listen hard enough, you can almost literally hear Orson Welles dying in his voiceover for Transformers: The Movie.

1.16.00: That fight scene between Batman and Bane was straight up one of the most unintentionally hilarious things ever.

Also, the reveal about Bane being in the League of Shadows would have much more power if Alfred hadn't been talking about it a half-hour ago. And how the hell does Alfred get this information? A shadowy terrorist involved in a secret society and it's all just on the internet or something? (For that matter, how does Bane know about Lucius' Batman arsenal?)

1.23.15: This prison tunnel is apparently the oracles from The NeverEnding Story.

1.26.43: Blake clearly does not have the same issue with using guns as Batman does. Using it as a lesson is kind of a neat touch. Even in self-defense, killing is killing.

1.27.55: The innocent child singing the national anthem is a little manipulative, isn't it, Christopher? (I do, however, like the yellow and black colors for the Whatever State This Is Generic Football Team, though. Look, actual color in Gotham City!)

1.35.22: Damn. I was ready to call convoluted on Bane's whole plot, but that all came together smoothly. That's impressive. That is a truly sadistic, villainous plan, and very worthy of a Batman movie. And much less confused than whatever the hell the Joker was supposed to be doing in The Dark Knight (yeah, the whole "Do I look like a man with a plan?" thing is still highly annoying to me, considering the intense amount of planning, timing, coordination and resources the Joker would've needed to do anything he did; come on, man, the whole opening scene of that movie is a perfectly timed, perfectly planned out robbery that depends on school buses being in the exact place at the exact moment they're needed; that is to-the-second planning). Anyway, I'm not totally loving this movie, but that plan really came together and the stakes feel much more real right now.

(And what the hell? William Devane? Weird. Unexpected.)

1.38.50: Wow, this movie's actually calling Gordon out for lying about Harvey Dent.

1.41.28: Okay, here we go. I figured we'd get to the right wing neofascism sooner or later. Now Bane has essentially encouraged the 99% to go after the rich people and it turns the city into the unruly chaos of mob rule. Boy, I hope one of the rich aristocrats who thinks he owns the city comes down and takes the law into his own hands to help save Gotham from its own lesser citizenry! In the last movie, Batman did it through extraordinary rendition, interfering with police operations, tampering with crime scenes, and illegal wiretapping. Can't wait to see what he uses this time. Will there be a drone strike in the third act? Shh, it's just that people better and richer than you have a better definition of freedom or something.

(And seriously, it seems like we should be ramping into the third act now, how the hell is there an hour of this left?)

1.46.40: What is the point of this little girlfriend that Selina has? I mean, I appreciate seeing Juno Temple whenever I do, but is there a purpose for this character, like, at all?

1.50.07: Three thousand cops surviving underground for three months, even with supplies... that seems like a stretch to me, just the logistics alone, especially in a city that seems to have turned on the government. Why have show trials and execute rich people and then make sure that a police force is getting food and water and heat? I mean, if it comes down to that, why not just rescue those people? Dig them out? It's not like the massive effort involved in keeping those people alive wouldn't go unnoticed by Bane's men. (Also, there's not   a single manhole they would have access to?)

1.53.06: Bane just sounds too tired to even bother. Like this is all so beneath him. (And boy, he hasn't been missing any meals since Gotham got cut off from the outside world...)

1.57.15: The climb to freedom was hella effective, even if it feels like it took forever to get there.

1.57.40: The Scarecrow again because god forbid they should let anything just be finished. Eh, it's a decent enough callback, I'll give it to them.

2.00.02: I like that Gordon's approach is basically that they can't sit and wait for outside help to find them, that they need to do something themselves. That's why James Gordon is a good character; he doesn't just rely on Batman.

2.01.35: So, how did Bruce Wayne get back into Gotham City? I've seen people debating that issue, and, I don't know... does it matter? I'm willing to take it on faith that he's got rich friends and resources through his company and, I mean, jeez, he is Batman after all. The guy's got contingencies for contingencies. Plus he's apparently magic. (I do wonder, though, just how Bruce Wayne got in undetected, in the middle of winter, with a bridge out. Maybe he has a tunnel or something. Seems shitty if he doesn't tell people about it so they can evacuate, though.)

2.07.13: I'd call Batman out on taking the time to make an ignitable bat symbol with a neutron bomb set to detonate in 12 hours somewhere inside of Gotham City, but Christopher Nolan is all about the symbols. He's not about an interesting interpretation of symbols, or about a plot that's interesting relating to his interpretation of the symbols, but the guy's quite the symbol fanatic.

Wouldn't Bane see that and figure now's a good time to blow up the bomb?

And how do they all know when it's going to blow up when even the guy who weaponized it couldn't give a definite answer as to when the decay would cause the reactor core to explode?

2.07.25: Seriously, is Bane dying or is it just too much of an effort to speak?

2.09.20: Apparently the health effects of being buried in a sewer for three months are negligible. Apparently, they've even been shaving.

2.16.29: "Tell me where the trigger is. Then, you have my permission to die." Bale's good when he gets all butch. (So, does Marion Cotillard have it, or what?)

2.17.16: Right on the Talia thing. Sort of makes Bane's whole story about "I was a man before I saw the sun" into a lie, since he wasn't the kid who escaped the prison. What would be the point of lying about it? Also, Bane's mask...where does it store the drugs it pumps into his body? It's not connected to anything.

2.17.18: Right on the trigger thing.

2.19.20: Okay, this is actually a good plot twist, bringing it back around that this is because Batman essentially murdered R'as al Ghul in the first movie. So where lying about Harvey Dent comes back to haunt Gordon and Wayne, so does "I won't kill you, but that doesn't mean I have to save you." Thematically, that's very interesting, because it's always bugged me the moralistic hair-splitting in the climax of Batman Begins. That's a nice touch.

2.21.59: So, Bane cared for, protected, and made escape impossible for young Talia because she was an innocent... how many innocents do you suppose have been killed in Gotham since he shut everything down and cut off the city? I mean, how many babies didn't survive, you know? What was their crime? I guess I'm not supposed to notice that kind of inconsistency in these things.

Hey, how do three trucks drive around constantly in a city that has had its incoming gas supply cut off?

Also, the cops threatening to shoot Blake... I get it, but at the same time, I find it very depressing that in The Dark Knight, Christopher Nolan sided with free will and our better impulses. He showed us the nihilism of the Joker wasn't absolute, that crowds wouldn't turn on each other to save themselves just because they were afraid. But in The Dark Knight Rises, apparently they do, turning on the people who ran things literally just because they were free to do so and there wouldn't be any consequences. So now I guess people are animals. So now it's up to individual exceptionalism to save people from themselves. Batmayn Rand. tunnel, then?

2.25.41: Picture above: realism in a Batman movie.

2.28.44: That's a death scene, Marion Cotillard? Come on, you're better than that. You're a damn Oscar winner!

Man, I miss Michael Caine. No Michael Caine for the last 88 minutes.

2.29.52: Finally, Jim figures it out. That was a nice moment.

2.30.01: Jesus, Batman, careful with that, it's unstable, remember?

2.31.22: Blake throwing his badge away is a little disillusioning. If the system doesn't work, or it breaks down, you try to redeem and rebuild it, not just cast it aside. It's too important for that.

2.34.07: Aw, Alfred.

The "Robin" joke is pretty stupid, honestly, but who gives a shit? This movie has deeper structural problems.

2.36.29: Okay, so... Bruce Wayne knows he's famous, right? I mean, he's going to get spotted in a second by some overzealous Italian paparazzo or something, especially out on a sidewalk cafe with a beautiful girl. He's not really doing a very good job of keeping his faked death a secret. Also, neutron bombs (and Bane called it a neutron bomb, even though the movie uses the words "neutron" "nuclear" and "atomic" like they all mean the same thing, and someone even tracks a fusion bomb with radiation sensors, which is kind of scientifically impossible--a fusion bomb wouldn't give off enough radiation to be tracked) emit a wave that destroys organic matter, so I don't know how he's not dead. Also, I'm not sure it's much of a heroic sacrifice if he then gets to go on and live happily ever after in secret. What did he give up? Notoriety, kind of?

The ending is somehow much happier if you imagine that Alfred's having a stroke and hallucinating a happier future for Bruce.

And then there's John Blake becoming the new Batman... interesting idea, but how is he going to pull it off from a logistical standpoint. I mean, Bruce Wayne spent seven years training himself to use his body as a weapon, and some cop is going to pull it off with zero training? And Bruce Wayne's cartoonishly limitless money supply has always been the real reason he's able to be Batman. I have this hilarious image of Joseph Gordon-Levitt in a batsuit that's been duct-taped together, because does he have the resources to keep making new ones? How is he going to replace the Batmobile? What are his connections? I mean, granted, in this Batman universe, he's probably not going to have to fight off mutants or superpowered villains or Darkseids or anything, but is he still going to have the Wayne Enterprises arsenal and fortune at his disposal?

Boy, you'd almost think that Christopher Nolan doesn't think these things through...

Thoughts After the Movie Ended:

:: Boy, Bane's death was pretty anticlimactic. It also is supposed to let Bruce off the moral hook because Selina killed him and not Batman, but come on, that's just convenient. Batman may have thwarted Talia and Bane's plan, but he doesn't actually, you know, defeat either one of them.

:: That device Catwoman is after that can completely erase someone's identity can't destroy paper records. Someone's going to recognize Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle really fucking fast.

:: The rushed pacing is frantic, and there's a lot of exposition for a movie that needs almost three hours to kind of tell highlights from the story it has in mind. That "I'm watching a trailer for another movie" feeling never really went away.

:: I saw someone a few months ago complaining that changing the main locations of Gotham City from Chicago to New York and Pittsburgh was too jarring, but I actually disagree. We're seeing a cleaner, less crime-ridden city 8 years later. Giving the city a different look does a better job of establishing that than all the talk about the Dent Act. It's supposed to be a different city spiritually.

:: Yes, movie, I get that Bane was in the League of Shadows. Every character mentions it a dozen times.

:: That prison was pretty relaxed for the festering hellhole we're constantly told it is.They even had a TV where they apparently only got news from Gotham City. (Great reception, too, considering it's in a hole in the ground in the Middle East or something.) And no guards? And is the pit the only way in or out? How do they get food in there? How does their waste get out? No one has a friend trying to rescue them or something? Jeez, why didn't they just go all out and put the prison in outer space while they were at it?

:: Why would Talia have slept with Bruce Wayne, anyway?

:: Given the time frame of Talia's prison origins, shouldn't Bane be 50 or something?

Final Thoughts:

Overall, I found it more enjoyable than The Dark Knight but still found it as convoluted, overstuffed, inconsistent, and hemorrhaging plot holes as the other films in this series. I liked Anne Hathaway, she was fun. And I still think Christian Bale was a decent Batman. Michael Caine brought in some much-needed humanity (not enough of it, honestly), and Joseph Gordon-Levitt was a nice addition. But ultimately everyone's too much of a cipher representing a differing social viewpoint to actually be a character, and Christopher Nolan's too interested in symbols and grand themes to tell a story about people.

That's it. I'm exhausted and I have a bit of a headache. I'm glad there aren't going to be more of these. If this is your cup of tea, enjoy them. But they're not mine, and I have a lot of other Batman stuff that I like that I can enjoy, anyway. It's just not for me.


Valerie Smith said...

Three thousand cops surviving underground for three months, even with supplies

And here's where the movie fell apart for me. The logistics. Not just for the cops. Keeping enough food and fuel flowing into the city and distributing would be damn near impossible for a fully functioning city government let alone a bunch of thugs. The city would have turned on Bane in a week.

Of course, if I'm thinking about logistics in the theater chances are you lost me a long time ago.

SamuraiFrog said...

That's an excellent point.

phoniexflames said...

I mean you no disrespect, but I feel like you focus more on the fanboys feelings about the movie rather than the movies themselves. It's okay, because it happens. I, for example, can't stand fight club because of the people who are fans of it who wanted to emulate brad pitt's character, not realizing that it's a satire.

It's pretty apparent from your posts (which I've followed for a long time), you enjoy a camp-style of batman more than anything else, a la the Brave and the Bold cartoon series. It's an excellent series, but this is a different take. It's not... REALISTIC, (because it's a comic book, and comic books can never be transposed to real life without massive, massive consequences), but I believe that these Noland movies seem to take place within a framework with a bit more realistic CONSEQUENCES than the previous incarnations. Less camp, more of a thoughtful action piece.


Quick things. I believe the film Dark Knight Rises has some large structural problems. In particular, it's obvious that Nolan had something else in mind, using the Joker again, but with Ledger gone, he had to revamp the mechanics of the story a little. That being said, the story needed a bit more work. There's a lot of cohesiveness between the Dark Knight and the Dark Knight Rises which I think that, due to your massive dislike of the previous film, you were unable to see. The best parts of the film revolve around Bruce removing himself from society after disappearing following Harvey Dent's death. Rachel Dawes pointed out correctly that there would never be a time where Bruce didn't need Batman. That was true, because when he was forced to give up the role, he no longer lived his life. Bruce believed that Rachel was his only way out, and didn't want to live after that.

I think it was also great to turn part of this movie into a trial over Bruces's actions following the Dark Knight, about how what was needed from him was his resources, not his body. I think a much stronger film would be pretty much fatalist in nature; Bruce retaking up the mantle because he WANTS to die, realizing that Alfred was right, dying physically, but putting together enough resources-wise to sustain the city.

In the end, I enjoyed the three films, but felt that the pacing was horrible for the third film. Really, I wish you enjoyed the Dark Knight, or at least could see it a different way; less political in nature, more symbolic. One way I have heard Batman described as in terms of heroic symbolic comparisons, is the "exiled king." He comes from aristocracy (wealthy family), his family is taken from him, he leaves as his kingdom falls to corruption, and he returns to reconquer it.

phoniexflames said...


For me, the Dark Knight wasn't about how rich people get to do whatever they want, but about one man using his body and resources in such a way that was "necessary" to jumpstart a society into saving itself. Gotham had become so corrupt that people lost hope in electing good people to office, in making sure good cops were on the street... they needed a symbol to inspire them just enough to give them hope that everything wasn't lost. Once that was achieved, Batman's role would be over and he would retire. Gotham was inspired enough to elect a great District Attorney (which, he held a fundraiser for in order to make sure he would always be able to run for office comfortably) to bring down the mob, but the joker's anarchistic systemic plans to break down Dent worked, and the cost would have been the city's momentum and hope, if not for Batman taking the blame (because they caught Joker and he would answer for those crimes) and basically shifting the symbol hope and inspiration into the end game of all vigilantism. That only bolsters the credibility that the Batman gave to the police department and the justice system.

Crap, this was longwinded. Sorry about that. I always enjoy your reviews and use them as a go-to for what to watch. I apologize if I've made you angry at all.

SamuraiFrog said...

I don't feel like I focus on the fanboy feelings rather than the films themselves, I just think the films themselves don't present the complex viewpoint they pretend they do, nor do I feel they contain realistic consequences. I don't find them thoughtful in any way, though they certainly pretend to be, and I reject the idea of vigilantism as a necessary agent for societal change, no matter what the intent behind it.

I see a lot of cohesiveness between The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises, but mostly in that it's just more of the same. I think The Dark Knight Rises was, if anything, a better film, simply because it did away with the nonsense of faux-nihilism that the Joker supposedly represented but absolutely did not.

Frankly, I find this idea of hollow-complications-as-meaningful-plot-complexity a problem with all of Nolan's films.

I don't actually enjoy a camp-style of Batman more than anything else, I just hate to see the concept approached with so much seriousness, because it only sheds light on how silly the concept really is. I'm just never going to see it as a mature concept, because it isn't, and enshrining that kind of immaturity and calling it serious ethical consideration is moronic. Especially when these movies are just so dull and poorly (over)written. No one's going to top the psychology of Batman: The Animated Series, anyway. I see the symbolism of The Dark Knight--all Nolan seems to care about is the endless talk of symbolism and the meaning of the symbolism and the psychology of the symbolism, even though the story makes absolutely no sense.

I appreciate your points, and I see the intention of the films themselves, I just don't think any of them comes close to pulling off what they're trying to say. They're just too convoluted and empty, and on some level, I find them embarrassingly simplistic.

phoniexflames said...

You know, I had this really, really large response written out to discuss the film more and sort of try to understand where your anger comes from with regard to the film, but then I got to the point where I realized that I pretty much feel the way you do about Nolan that I do about Whedon.

I can see why you disliked the Dark Knight, but I think, like me, it is only compounded by how people have reacted to your opinion. For what it's worth, I'm sorry about those people; I know how it feels to be attacked for just not enjoying something as a matter of taste, and I know what it feels like to feel as though everyone else is missing some huge problems in a film that you feel is either mediocre or poor and not worth the acclaim.

I thank you for your thoughtful responses and I wish that, whenever the series reboots (because it will, eventually), maybe you'll get a version of the character you enjoy more.

SamuraiFrog said...

Well, please understand, too, that these films don't really make me angry. More than anything, The Dark Knight made me feel confused, because it took me years to really understand why I didn't enjoy it as much as I had Batman Begins. I don't really feel attacked for not liking them, by you or by anyone. It's just, as you say, really only a matter of taste.

I'd have no problem with this kind of approach to the character, I just don't think Nolan pulled it off. Maybe one day they'll do Batman films I like more, but if not, it's not like I can't still watch Batman Returns or read Batman: Year One anytime I want. I know a lot of people who think The Dark Knight is the definitive take on the character. It's not for me, though, but with a property this old the great thing is that I have so many other things that are more my idea of what Batman is.

So if I come across as angry at the fans, or at what you said about the film, or anything, I was really just annoyed while I was watching it, because it seemed very long and not worth the time investment to me. I appreciate the discussion, though, ESPECIALLY since you weren't a dick about it, which is really the only thing that sets me off.